Sunday, February 11, 2007

On Border Security

February 10, 2007

To: President George Bush, Senator John Cornyn, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, and Representative Lloyd Doggett, Secretary Condoleezza Rice, Secretary Michael Chertoff, Secretary Robert Gates and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales

Re: Border Security


While I support the efforts of this administration for maintaining our nation’s security through our military actions around the world, from Iraq and Afghanistan, to the Horn of Africa and the Philippines, I am dumbfounded by the lack of substantive actions in regard to securing our southern border.

Living in Texas, the cost of supporting illegal immigrants allowed to live here without consequence is very apparent. During my student teaching, I had a third grade student casually mention his father telling him stories of sneaking across the border from Mexico. Border towns’ hospitals are being overwhelmed by having to render services to illegal immigrants, especially pregnant women who cross the border solely for the purpose of birthing their child on American soil, making their child an American citizen, resulting in yet another burden on the American taxpayer. I have heard businessmen call in to radio talk shows, explaining how they have had to lay off their American citizen employees and close their doors because they are unable to compete with other, less ethical businessmen who hire illegal alien labor. The immigrants aren’t “doing the jobs Americans won’t do”. They are stealing American jobs performed by skilled American craftsmen. Even in Georgia, after a meat company was raided by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Americans came to take those jobs the illegal aliens held – those jobs “Americans won’t do”. And guess what? Those new American employees were paid a higher wage than the illegal aliens were paid. Illegal alien workers drive down wages for American citizen workers. My points in regard to the costs doesn’t even begin to cover the unreimbursed costs to both state and federal governments that are incurred because of the large and growing illegal alien population in this country.

Equally important are the national security aspects for border security. I hear news reports over and over again of armed and armored persons crossing our border. The Congress has authorized, and the President signed, a fence along the southern border. Why was this project not fully funded? The President authorized the National Guard to assist the Border Patrol in border enforcement. Yet, those same National Guard are not authorized to use force against armed and armored invaders? When armed and armored persons cross our border without our authorization, that is a direct threat to our sovereignty; it is no longer a law enforcement issue – it becomes a national defense issue. The Border Patrol is not only catching Mexican illegal aliens. They have captured persons from terrorist nations, and to my shock, a large number of these persons have been released. Just last year, FBI Director Mueller testified before Congress that Hezbollah operatives had been smuggled into the United States. I cannot forget that Hezbollah is, for all intents and purposes, an arm of the Islamic Republic of Iran, who is not a friend of the United States. It wouldn’t be difficult for someone from an enemy, terrorist nation to blend in with Mexican, Central American or South American illegal aliens. In fact, according to a news report from December 29, 2006 I found on the Daily Bulletin (Ontario, California) website, a man was apprehended in New Mexico near the US-Mexico border. This man originally claimed to be Miguel Alfonso Salinas. However, it turns out this man was an Egyptian named Ayman Sulmane Kamal. How many more Ayman Sulmane Kamals have we not apprehended, and what are they intent upon doing while they are here?

We have good Americans protecting our borders. Yet, we have disgracefully imprisoned two Border Patrol agents for doing their job. Just today, there are reports of falsify evidence against these agents and Homeland Security personnel lying about the incident before Congress. Just this past weekend, one of these agents, Ignacio Ramos, was for some inexplicable reason was placed among the general population, which resulted in him being assaulted my fellow inmates. Reports I heard on the news stated the prison population was 27 percent illegal alien, and that while he was being beaten, the attackers were calling him “La Migra”. Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean are wrongly imprisoned. How is it that American Border Patrol agents are in prison, for terms longer than most murderers, when the drug-running illegal alien was given amnesty for past and future crimes, as well as reportedly being given a green card. In addition, U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton has also prosecuted and convicted Edwards County Deputy Sheriff Guillermo F. Hernandez for shooting at a van full of illegal aliens that was trying to run him down. Sutton seems to be prosecuting the wrong people. He is wrongfully pursuing American law enforcement personnel instead of the criminal illegal aliens. The deputy sheriff has not yet been sentenced, but it would only be right and proper for President Bush to issue immediate pardons for these three patriots. The two Border Patrol agents should never have spent a single minute in prison and shouldn’t remain there a minute longer. Guillermo Hernandez should not step foot inside a federal prison as an inmate.

I am sick and tired of the “catch and release” of illegal aliens. I am disgusted that my government is consulting with Mexican officials about how Americans can fix the enormous problem of illegal immigration. The Mexican government is hypocritical for telling us to continue to allow this invasion. Their treatment of illegal aliens is much more harsh that we have ever been. We have allowed illegal aliens to publicly gather and demonstrate in favor of amnesty. According to Title I, Chapter III of the 1917 Constitution of Mexico “foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country,” and the executive can compel a foreigner to “abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action”. Chapter II, Article 32 states “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces. In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of pratique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic.” Even naturalized Mexicans are second-class citizens: there are Mexican Nationals, and then there are Mexican Citizens. To be a citizen, you must have “an honest means of livelihood”. Yet the Mexican government wants us to forgive their citizens for entering our nation without our permission. Mexico is fine with exporting their poor to the United States for us to take care of. Title I, Chapter I, Article 11 states “everyone has the right to enter and leave the Republic, to travel through its territory and to change his residence without necessity of a letter of security, passport, safe-conduct or any other similar requirement.” The way I read this, the Mexican government thinks it is perfectly legal for their citizens to enter the United States whether we want them here or not, because “everyone has the right to enter and leave the Republic”, “without necessity of a letter of security, passport, safe-conduct or any other similar requirement”.

The Mexican government, through its consulates here in the United States, issues matricula consular cards. The only Mexicans who would need this identification are those who are in the United States illegally. Any entity within the United States should be forbidden from accepting these cards for transacting business of any kind – not for opening bank accounts, not for receiving government services, not for receiving a state-issued driver’s license. If the United States even talked about enacting immigration legislation identical to what Mexico has on the books, we would be decried as bigots and racists.

While there may be illegal aliens who do truly wish to become part of the “American Dream”, too many are refusing to assimilate into the American culture. They do not learn English; they create insular communities and seek to restore the American Southwest to Mexico. To ignore this faction of illegal aliens is to potentially commit national suicide. Illegal aliens who think this way, but begin to have American citizen children to whom they teach these ideas is dangerous to the sovereignty of the United States. My research has shown Mexican government claims its nation “extends beyond… its border”, and to do this, they have contributed Mexican textbooks to America school districts with large Hispanic populations. These books apparently teach Mexican history from the Mexican perspective. If the Mexican government wants to teach it’s nationals about their nation’s history, they need to make it more desirable to stay in Mexico, not encourage them to illegally enter the United States. In addition to those who do not want to assimilate, there are common criminals. I have heard too many news stories in recent months of illegal aliens committing murder and other violent crimes against innocent Americans. This doesn’t even get into the issue of the violent gang, MS-13.

We were supposed to have secured borders with the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Instead, all we got was the amnesty part. Nothing, absolutely nothing, was done to stop the flood of illegal immigrants coming over our border, and the flood has only gotten worse over the past twenty-one years. I will not accept anything that even smells of amnesty until we have physical control over our borders, and know exactly who is already here or entering the United States. I want a border fence constructed from Border Field State Park in California to Brownsville and South Bay in Texas. I want our National Guard who have been deployed along the border to be armed and allowed to confront any illegal aliens they encounter. I want our United States Attorneys to prosecute those who are breaking our laws by sneaking into the United States with illegal cargos of drugs or humans, and not our brave law enforcement officers who are trying to stem the tide. Groups such as the Minutemen should be welcomed and encouraged for the assistance they can provide, and not be written off as vigilantes. We need to enforce the immigration laws on our books before we create more of them. I want to see employers who hire illegal aliens to be heavily fined. Until the cost of hiring illegal aliens significantly outweighs the benefits, unethical employers will continue to hire illegal aliens for a lower wage than an American employee would demand. I want an end to anchor babies: if, and only if, the parents are legal residents within the United States should a child be granted United States citizenship. My interpretation of the 14th Amendment was to grant citizenship to former slaves. The time for that necessity has long past. I want illegal aliens to be denied public assistance. I want it to be as unpleasant as possible for those in the United States illegally. I want it to be so unpleasant that they self-deport. I like that there are still people who want to come to the United States, but I want those people to follow the rules to get here: we cannot allow an unregulated flow of a poor, uneducated people to enter our country and become a permanent underclass. I will not support any politician who does not support these issues.

Border security has both national security and economic implications. If we cannot maintain our own sovereignty through maintaining border security, we, as a nation, are doomed to fade into history. We will no longer be the United States of America. I hope to never see that happen in my lifetime, but if you in Washington to not do what the Constitution demands of you: Congress shall have the power to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.


Sincerely,
Miss Ladybug

Updated 2/13/07:

Grim, of Grim's Hall, posted a link to this letter. One commenter over there, will_b, took issue with what I had to say, all but calling me a racist (didn't I say something about being called a bigot and a racist in my letter...) (will_b has retracted the accusation of racism). I said I would respond to will_b, but now that I'm done, I think it is too long to put in Grim's comments, so I am posting it here:

My opening statement was more of an acknowledgement that while I support the administration in one area, in another, I cannot agree with their actions in regard to illegal immigration, particularly as it related to the flood of illegals coming over our southern border.

When I was still in school last spring, when all the demonstrations in support of illegal aliens, I was listening to a local radio talk show out of San Antonio on my way home one night. One caller was a businessman from Corpus Christi, in something like plumbing or electrical. His employees had been American citizens with licenses within their field. He had to lay off his entire workforce and close his business because he could not compete with other businesses who would do jobs with one licensed American citizen employee to supervise while the grunt work was performed by unlicensed illegal alien labor. I’ll admit that this caller’s story is purely anecdotal. However, one of commenter over bthun here on my blog left a link to this similar story of a man in Atlanta whose entire family had been in framing/construction. It sheds a little light on how unethical businesses, or at least construction companies, go about paying illegals.

You can believe that border security has nothing to do with national security all you want. You want examples? Well, here you go:

A man caught near the U.S.-Mexico border in New Mexico back in December September who told Border Patrol agents his name was Miguel Alfonso Salinas when in fact his name is Ayman Sulmane Kamal. He’s an Egyptian-born Muslim. Egypt is one of the countries suspected of sponsoring terrorism.

A Representative from Texas has been told by sheriffs along the U.S.-Mexico border “that illegal aliens of Middle Eastern descent have been able to blend into the culture south of the U.S. border and pass themselves off as Mexicans.” Generally, people from the Middle East and people from Mexico, Central and South America are dark complected and have black/dark hair. If a Middle Easterner wanted to sneak into the U.S., it they would look far less out of place coming over from the southern border than the northern one. If they also spoke Spanish, it would be even easier to “blend in”.

The FBI broke up a ring that attempted to smuggle members of Hezbollah into the U.S. from Mexico

Another look at the connection between Hebollah and illegal immigration (and a mention of Muslim groups’ open support of illegal immigration) Some of those armed and armored persons crossing our border are suspected of being Mexican military. When another military crosses our border, to assist drug runners and other criminals, that is a national defense issue.

Here’s one MSNBC article about one such incident in January 2006, and another one from The Daily Bulletin, a paper out of Ontario, CA.

Since the two border patrol agents have been sent to prison, the Department of Homeland Security has not been very cooperative about sharing evidence with Congress about the agents’ purported confession to being “out to shoot Mexicans”. Also, there has been refusal to share transcripts from the trial. The two agents convicted were not the only agents present during the incident, but no one else was prosecuted.

I heard the “27% illegal alien” prison population either on TV or the radio, so I haven’t been able to find that specific statistic anyplace I can show you. However, I did find this article stating the federal prison population is “roughly 17 percent” illegal alien, noting that illegals are only “about 3 percent of the total population.” The 27% I quoted could have been for the Yazoo facility specifically or an incorrect report. I can’t recall the exact news program that stated that statistic, which makes it hard to source now. Regardless, Ramos should have been segregated from the general population – he could have been killed. For additional information about illegals and the Federal Justice system, you can go here.

Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila ran after abandoning a van with 700 pounds of marijuana. Sutton gave this drug runner immunity and medical treatment in exchange for his testimony. I don’t know about you, but I’ll believe the Border Patrol agents over a drug runner. This man is now suing for $5 million. I hope that suit gets tossed. The least he should get is a one-way ticket back to Mexico, if not an extended stay in a federal penitentiary.

I also think that an van full of illegals and their coyote trying to run over a Texas sheriff are the ones doing wrong, not the sheriff trying to defend himself from what is in essence a deadly weapon.

People who ignore and break our laws should not be entitled to the same rights and privileges that American citizens, and even legal residents, are entitled to. I don’t “hate brown people” and I am not a racist. I am related to “brown people”, if you must know, and they are treated no differently than anyone else that has married into my extended family.

27 comments:

Shannon (N5KOU) McGauley said...

We will keep watching our borders and supporting all of our Agents and Law Enforcement until our elected officials wake up and hear the voice of the American People instead of Business!

Mr. Wolf said...

Absolutely fantastic letter. Very well written, and arguments very well detailed and covered. I would not look forward to debating you!

Greatly appreciate this!

Wolf

Miss Ladybug said...

Wolf~
I don't do as well with extemporaneous debate stuff. I do much better when I can take the time to choose my words carefully. Thanks for the compliment, though!

Anonymous said...

Wow. Excellent and thank you for doing all the hard work to put this together so well! And to generously share it, you are a fine patriot. Thank you dear woman, mil gracias.
alexa kim

bthun said...

Very well said Miss Ladybug.

I've sent many letters to my Senators and my congresswidget. I personally feel it to be a waste of time to send it to the Whitehouse at this point, but harp on my congress widgets, oh yeah...

As yet another example of the impact of illegal immigration on our citizens, please take a peek at the AJC (Atlanta paper) article ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION Illegals change the homebuilding industry on how a third generation family business went out of business over the man's steadfast principle to obey our laws.

I would give you a direct link to the AJC, but they have archived the article. It's at their archive site if you want to register to get access.

unkawill said...

Would You BE MY VALENTINE...?

Miss Ladybug said...

LOL, unkawill!

I'll think about it, but I don't know anything about you ;-) Except I've seen you post over at VC...

will_b said...

I retracted the racism remark (see Grims comments section early this morning).

However, you neglected to address your comments where you call Americans who hire illegal immigrants "LESS ETHICAL", American workers as SKILLED CRAFTSMEN...yet address those illegals you claim took their jobs as THIEVES.

It is a double standard that could be construed as racist, or overly nationalistic. Either way the comments reflect something emotional about you that you should address.

And how about this?

"It wouldn’t be difficult for someone from an enemy, terrorist nation to blend in with Mexican, Central American or South American illegal aliens."

That is an odd statement. What is the point of this? Is she worried that a terrorist might sneak into a grocery store and blow them up.....sneaking past the guard in the store looking like a Hispanic?

All of your comments have been carefully parsed, there are excellent points made over at Grims Hall. Here are some highlights;

What I am saying is that to link the CURRENT problems of "illegal" immigration (those outlined by Miss Laybug) from Mexico and the GWOT is an illogical connection. To state that there is no connection is a true and factual statement, today.

Now, if you want to discuss national security and illegal immigration, there is room for debate. For example, todays illegal immigration poses no more threat to our national security (from a fighting GWOT perspective) than do fishing vessels. What I mean is that we have fishing boats that leave our shores for months at a time. Many of them sneak in illegal immigrants on board and bring them back..TODAY. Why no outrage over fishing vessels, or Cruise ships that port international waters where terrorists can swap identities after landing in Jamaica?

We could go on and on with other possibilities (personal aircraft, ect.). The point is that Miss Ladybug is making current problems of immigration tied to GWOT and that is wrong.

Again, the only CURRENT tie to threats from border crossing and GWOT have come from Canada, a detail left out from Miss. Ladybug. And this wan't illegal immigration, it was a legal attempt to cross the border.

I dont agree that terrorists would risk crossing the Mexican border to enter our country to do us harm. Terrorists seem to be a bit more sophisticated than that.

Here is a definition from Donald Rumsfeld about what GWOT should define.

Also, in December 2006, U.S. Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, as he prepared to end his tenure, expressed regret over the Bush Administration's use of the phrase "War on Terror", saying the phrase had created unattainable expectations and that "it's not a war on terror. Terror is a weapon of choice for extremists who are trying to destabilize regimes and impose their -- in the hands of a small group of clerics -- their dark vision on all the people that they can control."

....Now, let's focus on terrorism and terror as it relates to the GWOT and how it relates to those who attacked us on 911 as defined by Donald Rumsfeld, whom I am sure you agree has represented the leadership of our country who battle these challenges?

"Terror is a weapon of choice for extremists who are trying to destabilize regimes and impose their -- in the hands of a small group of clerics -- their dark vision on all the people that they can control."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...20060905- 4.html

Terrorists and Terrorism (defined by the US Department of State)

http://www.state.gov/coalition/terr/

BORDER SECURITY AS DEFINED BY THE PRESIDENT (note nothing about "illegal" immigration and or gang violence)

http://www.state.gov/coalition/c.../2002/ 10154.htm

You see I can go on and on to prove my point. I would venture to say that only way you could connect the two would be to link me to some blog or right-wing rag that is trying to connect the two and dishonestly connecting the two. If not, please show me where I am missing something.

Mark said...

Great post Miss Ladybug. I saw it at Grim's hall and see you often at VC. If you do not object, I am going to plagiarize, modify as appropriate, and send it to GWB and my congresscritters. Thanks.

Miss Ladybug said...

Go right ahead, Mark. I said as much over at B5's Toothless Troops post.

Ymarsakar said...

I think the motivation behind the racism charges, that Miss Lady defended against, is based upon human slavery and serfdom. In a way, those against legal immigration seek to form a permanent underclass, sort of like the Turks in Germany or the Jews in Palestine, as a cheap workforce.

Whatever problems Americans suffer from illegal immigration, is 5 to 10 times less severe and numerous than the problems illegal immigrants suffer from coyotes, drug smugglers, and human slave masters. They are on this blackmarket trade network because it is illegal. If they were legal, the criminals couldn't extort money from the Mexican workers. So the criminals want things to keep being illegal. The folks in the US that want a permanent slave population also want to keep things illegal, under the hood so to speak.

So long as Mexicans believe that the law can be broken inside the US with no consequences, they will continue to do so. But if they continue to do so, they will not achieve parity in terms of human rights. But that is fine with the human slave masters of the 21st century.

It is just not businesses either. As mentioned, it also includes La Raza and other political wings, including military wings.

I favor the military solution. Iraq has given us the knowledge that you can indeed bring law and order to places and people that do not have it. There's a time window here. There is still law and order at the border, it is not as chaotic as Iraq simply because subversive agents have not had the time to destabilize the region nor the resources to do so. It is easy for Iran to setup networks in iraq, but not so easy at the Mexican-US border. But they try. They have the money and the men.

Bush should use what the military has learned in Iraq and apply it to Mexico.

Miss Ladybug said...

will_b said:

However, you neglected to address your comments where you call Americans who hire illegal immigrants "LESS ETHICAL", American workers as SKILLED CRAFTSMEN...yet address those illegals you claim took their jobs as THIEVES.

From my reply to you (just in case you overlooked it):

When I was still in school last spring, when all the demonstrations in support of illegal aliens, I was listening to a local radio talk show out of San Antonio on my way home one night. One caller was a businessman from Corpus Christi, in something like plumbing or electrical. His employees had been American citizens with licenses within their field. He had to lay off his entire workforce and close his business because he could not compete with other businesses who would do jobs with one licensed American citizen employee to supervise while the grunt work was performed by unlicensed illegal alien labor. I’ll admit that this caller’s story is purely anecdotal. However, bthun (on my blog) left a link to this similar story of a man in Atlanta whose entire family had been in framing/construction. It sheds a little light on how unethical businesses, or at least construction companies, go about paying illegals.

I would consider anyone who has earned licensing in their chosen field (plumbing, electrical, carpentry, etc.) to be a "skilled craftsman".

In regard to my original comment about Middle Easterns being able to pass to Mexican/Central or South American, will_b said:

That is an odd statement. What is the point of this? Is she worried that a terrorist might sneak into a grocery store and blow them up.....sneaking past the guard in the store looking like a Hispanic?

Again, from my reply:

I provided a link to an article about "a man caught near the U.S.-Mexico border in New Mexico back in December who told Border Patrol agents his name was Miguel Alfonso Salinas when in fact his name is Ayman Sulmane Kamal. He’s an Egyptian-born Muslim. Egypt is one of the countries suspected of sponsoring terrorism."

In addition, I provided a link to an article about a Representative from Texas who had been told by sheriffs along the U.S.-Mexico border “that illegal aliens of Middle Eastern descent have been able to blend into the culture south of the U.S. border and pass themselves off as Mexicans.” Generally, people from the Middle East and people from Mexico, Central and South America are dark complected and have black/dark hair. If a Middle Easterner wanted to sneak into the U.S., it they would look far less out of place coming over from the southern border than the northern one. If they also spoke Spanish, it would be even easier to “blend in”.

will_b said:

What I am saying is that to link the CURRENT problems of "illegal" immigration (those outlined by Miss Laybug) from Mexico and the GWOT is an illogical connection. To state that there is no connection is a true and factual statement, today.

Again, from my reply:

Links to articles discussing Hezbollah and the southern border:

The FBI broke up a ring that attempted to smuggle members of Hezbollah into the U.S. from Mexico
and
Hezbollah, Illegal Immigration, and the Next 9/11

not to mention two articles about an incident from January 2006:

Mexican incursions inflame border situation
and
Armed standoff along U.S. border

I'm not the one over at Grim's who got into what the definition of terrorism is, so I'm not going to address those issues here. I don't have time to go reading all your links right now, and then to formulate a rebuttal.

will_b said...

Miss Ladybug,

"...operatives were assisting others with some association with Hezbollah in coming to the United States,”

First, you are either intentionally misquoting the article you are linking to or you are doing it accidentally without fully understanding the distinction that differentiates a Hezbollah operative to those who have some association with operatives.

Please make that correction in your post or, post my comment that addresses this important detail. Many terrorist groups participate in illegal activity that helps fund their organization. Smuggling immigrants is a profitable venture, much like smuggling arms or drugs. You have yet to link that activity to terrorism or a terrorist plot, you have not.

Your other post that indicates a Middle Eastern man tried to cross the border also fails to link terrorism to the act of illegal immigration. What about all the other illegal immigrants that come from countries where we have enemies? There is no factual connection between your stories and your summation.

Miss Ladybug said...

will_b~

The full quote is:

“This was an occasion in which Hezbollah operatives were assisting others with some association with Hezbollah in coming to the United States,” Mueller said.

Mueller being FBI Director Robert Mueller, for those who haven't read the article or aren't familiar with that name.

The fact that anyone with ANY sort of connection to Hezbollah is attempting to sneak into the U.S., for whatever reason (to plan an actual terrorist attack, or "only" to raise money to be sent back to Lebanon) is worrisome to me. Hezbollah is a known terrorist organization. I don't want anyone with connection to Hezbollah in the U.S. And we don't know if they (FBI, etc.) have prevented any attacks already. Hezbollah is nothing but a puppet of the Iranian government. Iran has for all practical purposes been at war with us since they took over our embassy in Tehran in 1979. Hezbollah will do what Iran tells them to do.

As a general rule, I think I read something today that said for every 1 illegal that is caught entering the U.S., they estimate 2 or 3 get through. Yes, most of them are Mexican (I assume), but not all of them are.

As for the Egyptian man trying to pass himself off as a Latino when he was captured in southern New Mexico, it just goes to show that it's not just poor Mexicans trying to cross over our southern border. Mexicans, and Central and South Americans might actually walk the whole way. But if you're Egyptian, you've gone to a whole lot more trouble to sneak across our southern border - it's not like you can walk here from Egypt. What was he doing here? He was caught. How may others like him haven't been.

Terrorists only have to get it right once to be successful. We have to be right 100% of the time to keep Americans from dying.

will_b said...

Miss Ladybug,

Thank you for taking my comments! I have only a few more comments. I can see why you have a concern, but I only ask you to think more critically about your conclusions and the other possibilities, before you create more uncessary anger towards this issue.

Regarding your conclusions about illegal immigration and terrorism;

Your response was to link an article about "a man caught near the U.S.-Mexico border in New Mexico back in December who told Border Patrol agents his name was Miguel Alfonso Salinas when in fact his name is Ayman Sulmane Kamal. He’s an Egyptian-born Muslim. Egypt is one of the countries suspected of sponsoring terrorism."

Here is a detail you left out of your post. One that again shows either you are intentionally lying to your audience, or you fail to comprehend certain key points.

SEE BELOW:

On Sept. 5, a man calling himself Miguel Alfonso Salinas was apprehended off a deserted highway near the U.S.-Mexico border.

He was not even crossing the border. He was near the border. The conclusion you are drawing is not only a dangerous leap, but it is false.

And most importantly, the article did not state that he was Egyptian raised, only born. It is possible he changed his name since he might have become a Mexian National and didnt want to get his but beat down for being an Egyptian?

The article didnt state any details about that.


But lets just look at your logic on the surface. If we follow that logic, here is the formula

A man was from Egypt =E

He was near the border. = N

Egypt is a country that sponsors terrorism. = S

Therefore E + N + S = T

The only things you failed to prove is that 1) the man was linked with terrorism (L). 2) The man has a plan to commit a terrorist act (P). And he was planning to cross the border illegally (C). So the formula should look more like

E + I + S + L + P + C = T

Otherwise we could apply your formula to every Egyptian, Iranian, North Korean, Sudanese, Syrian, Cuban born person who is in the country or near it and then associate his presence with terrorism.

I doubt you have any idea how many Cubans enter our country illegally that have not caused a terrorist act or have a terrorist plot. Further, if we want to be silly about this. We can include Filipinos, since we know the Filipinos have terrorists in their country, China (we know they have terrorists), Europe (they have their new homegrown terrorists), Spain (same thing) and the list goes on and on.

But I don't think you have put critical thought into your deductions. Because if you had, you should be just as insistent on making the case about other countries who smuggle in people that sponsor terrorism or have people who are terrorists.

Additionally, you linked to an article that said that Hezbollah operatives had plans to sneak in people who were "associated in some way" with Hezbollah. Your conclusion is that if they are connected in ANY way that is not good for our country.

So lets elaborate on what the possibilities are, instead of simply jumping to the worst possible one.

I now have an association with you Miss Ladybug. What does that have to do with anything?

What you fail to do is to establish is an intent. You have not.

Now we have gone to war over less evidence. If the FBI or anybody had a substantial piece of information like this, I am sure Bush would be putting it all over the airwaves. But again, maybe not.

Maybe the attempt was a distraction to keep our intelligence agencies looking in the wrong direction? There are any number of possibilities. What we know for sure is that the article does not tie these people who were going to be smuggled into the country as terrorists.

But you dont address that.

For goodness sakes, George Bush is associated with Bin Laden in some way. Donald Rumsfeld is associated to the Saddam in some way. Colin Powell is associated to the Taliban in some way...in the way of giving them billions of dollars.

Your linkage is weak. Your argument is suffering from it.

Miss Ladybug said...

will_b~
Your points are getting tiresome, and it's late. I'll address your latest criticism tomorrow.

bthun said...

Tiresome indeed.

I will have to agree with will_b on one point and that is we should not be concerned with only the southern border. Instead we should be concerned with controlling all access points to our nation along the northern border, the southern border, the east coast, and the west coast. In short securing our ports of entry be they land, sea, or air.

I do not want to have an NBC incident occur in one of our population centers that is later traced to expired fradulent student or work visas, forged SSI/Drivers license documentation granted to people who smuggled into the country and/or hide among those in a sanctuary locale, etc., etc., etc. That would not be the time to reflect and revisit this "yeah but" debate concerning the link between the GWoT and border security.

Both the GWoT and border security are national issues of equal importance IMHO.

The citizens of this nation have the right to expect and the duty to demand that our government control who we allow to enter our country, to know for what reason they want to enter, and for how long they will be granted permission to stay.

If our elected representatives will not take up both issues with the intent of protecting, defending, and upholding the laws (IRCA 1986 anyone?)of this nation for her citizens, then we should remove them and replace them with those who will.

Miss Ladybug said...

First, I truly do not appreciate you calling me a liar. I have provided links to every single source I reference - anyone, if they wish to take the time, can follow those links, read the articles and draw their own conclusions. You seem to be the only one who has any real problems with the conclusions I have drawn. I have refrained from personal attacks against you. I deserve the same common courtesy. Further personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Back to the Egyptian man:

Columbus, NM, the dateline of the article I cited, is approximately 3 miles from the U.S.-Mexico border. Highway 9, the highway he was driving along, is even closer to the border in some places - less than even 1 mile away. If this man hadn't done anything wrong, why was he "apprehended"?

Quoting the article, "Alfonso Salinas was not who he seemed, according to U.S. Department of Justice and Department of Homeland Security documents. He lied to the agents about who he was, where he came from and what he was doing."

If he was innocent, why were federal agents so interested in learning the truth? To quote the article again: "It would take nearly a week of interviews with federal agents before Alfonso Salinas would give his real name: Ayman Sulmane Kamal, a Muslim born in Egypt - a country designated as "special-interest" by the United States for sponsoring terrorism."

The article continues:
"Evidence of "special-interest aliens" using the Mexican border to gain entry to the United States has been kept secret from the American public, according to federal law enforcement agents, terrorism experts and critics of U.S. foreign policy with Mexico.

In 2005, the Border Patrol apprehended approximately 1.2 million people in the U.S. illegally. Of those, 165,000 were from countries other than Mexico, and roughly 650 were, like Kamal, from special-interest countries, according to the Border Patrol."

Additionally, the article also states:
"Whether Kamal had ties to a terrorist group is not known. No information about him, including his current whereabouts, is available aside from what is in Justice Department and Homeland Security documents.

But the links between illegal immigration, expanded trade, Mexican narcotics organizations and terrorist groups has already been assessed by U.S. federal law enforcement agencies, according to DEA documents obtained by the Daily Bulletin."

Also:
"'For us to believe that Mexican smugglers will not assist, knowingly or unknowingly, foreign terrorists trying to enter the United States is incomprehensible,' said Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, who, along with other congressional representatives, has pushed for stricter border security policies."

The formulas you invented defy logic. Did I say he was "Egyptian raised"? No - those were your words. Your contention, that he is simply an immigrant to Mexico who has gained status as a Mexico National (which is a separate, lesser status than a Mexican Citizen, BTW), and he didn't want to get beaten for being Egyptian, is created out of whole cloth. Again, there is nothing in the article to indicate such.

No, I don't have exact figures on how many Cubans enter our country illegally, or how many the Coast Guard picks up in the Gulf of Mexico before they get here. Referencing Cuba in regard to illegals not plotting terrorist attacks is not a valid comparison. For geopolitical reasons, our government has decided that if persons escape from communist Cuba and actually make it "feet dry" to American soil, they get to stay here, as political refugees. If Cubans wanted to kill Americans and actively tried to do so, the government might decide to change that position.

The Phillipines is not a state sponsor of terrorism. They are a partner in the fight against Islamic radicalism. However, if someone from the Phillipines came to the U.S. illegally, I would want them detained and investigated. If there was no ill intent, they should be deported back to the Phillipines. If there IS ill intent, they should be detained futher and the governmental process of dealing with terrorists should commence. Same thing goes for Europe (a continent, not a country, of which Spain is part). China is a slightly different issue, more in line with Cuba, except we do not have that same "feet dry" policy, although I assume ICE would allow requests for political asylum. Again, however, if there is ill intent, I expect my government to do something about it.

Now, on to the article(s) about Hezbollah:

You seem to be focusing on the word "association". I read the meaning in this context (“This was an occasion in which Hezbollah operatives were assisting others with some association with Hezbollah in coming to the United States,” Mueller said.) as follows (courtesy of Merrium-Webster Online): 2 : an organization of persons having a common interest. You seem to be using this definition: 4 : the process of forming mental connections or bonds between sensations, ideas, or memories.

So, using my definition, I have a problem with persons "having a common interest" with Hezbollah trying to enter the United States covertly. End of story. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. If people that share their interests want to come to the U.S. without us knowing about it, that should be of great concern to every American.

I'm not sure if I have convinced you of anything. You have not been able to convince me that I am wrong. We may just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Miss Ladybug said...

I can't argue with needed to secure our entire border. I guess my focus on the U.S.-Mexico border has a lot to do with me living in Texas. I don't live in a podunk little town, but I'm glad I'm not in a very large metropolitan center that would be considered an attractive target for the terrorists.

I want interior enforcement, too. However, there have been recent events of concern to me that are more related to border enforcement, so that was my focus (this time). What got me started on blogging was a friend asking if I would be willing to post a letter to my Congresscritters re: illegal immigration when we were witness to all those huge pro-illegal immigration rallies last spring over on her blog. Believe me, I let my elected representatives know how I feel about important issues...

bthun said...

"I can't argue with needed to secure our entire border. I guess my focus on the U.S.-Mexico border has a lot to do with me living in Texas."

Understandable... and please Miss Ladybug, excuse my rant.

I never fail to be amazed that we are having this conversation 21 years after the IRCA of 1986. Much less the NG on the border as observers and hearing of the BP being prosecuted for having the temerity to enforce the integrity of our borders without first checking in with the Mexican Consulate.

Miss Ladybug said...

See, last time, we got the amnesty, but not the enforcement that was SUPPOSED to be part of it. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I am not buying "comprehensive immigration reform" - we'll once again be getting the amnesty and not the enforcement. I want to see that they can enforce existing law and secure the border before they do anything else.

will_b said...

Referencing Cuba in regard to illegals not plotting terrorist attacks is not a valid comparison.

I had to put this one out of order, because it perfectly highlights the main problems with your post. That is simple lack of critical thinking.

Q: Who was it that said "Egypt is one of the countries suspected of sponsoring terrorism."?

A: You

Why is this important? Because if we are going to make STATES WHO SPONSOR TERRORISM the criteria for drawing conclusions....then lets go the the chart that indicates WHO OUR COUNTRY LISTS AS STATES who SPONSOR TERRORISM.

The U.S. list of state sponsors of international terrorism is a list, compiled by the U.S. State Department, of countries that the United States' sees as sponsoring terrorism. Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._list_of_state_sponsors_of_international_terrorism

What country is listed first? Cuba!

WHO IS NOT ON THE LIST?????? EGYPT!!!!

Critical thinking!!!

Conclusion: In all due respect, you dont know what you are talking about. This is why your post is so outrageous.

First, I truly do not appreciate you calling me a liar. I have provided links to every single source I reference - anyone, if they wish to take the time, can follow those links, read the articles and draw their own conclusions.

I'll be the first to admit when I step out of line or make a mistake and apologize for it. But in this case, Miss Ladybug i did not call you a liar. I simply included as an possibility that you might be in addition to the possibility that you did not comprehend what you read. There are two choices there, and they are both logical assumptions. You have the ability to make a correction of you see fit. It will be interesting to see how far you will go for the sake of fairness.

Also, people have the right to draw their own conclusions or opinion...true. But they don't have the right to create or infer their own facts! Your article was sated as a fact and that is the BIG PROBLEM I have with your open letter.

You seem to be the only one who has any real problems with the conclusions I have drawn.

Well that maybe, but I am the only one catching the distinctions and the details. I cant apologize for being a critical thinker.

I deserve the same common courtesy. Further personal attacks will not be tolerated.

I understand and I respect that. I apologized for suggesting you might be racist. Again, I did not call you a liar. Also, you should think about others, before you call them thieves (someone who steals).

As far as your other comments....i dont want to "tire" anyone on your site, and I sincerely hope you publish this thread. I will try to keep it short and polite.

THE EGYPTIAN MAN ARGUMENT:

Here is my position. You are drawing conclusions that you FEEL are logical. Fine. But there are also MANY OTHER POSSIBILITIES that you are not considering fairly.

"If this man hadn't done anything wrong, why was he "apprehended"?

You are drawing a conclusion; He was apprehended, therefore he must have done something wrong. There could be many reasons why. Obviously, you've never experienced such unfairness. I have. Heres another inference, if he did something...why did they let him go?????

"If he was innocent, why were federal agents so interested in learning the truth? "

I was caught drinking with my girlfriend (when i was 21) and she lied about who she was out of fear...i got arrested because I told the truth.....they assumed I was lying about our identity. You just assume too much and draw conclusions without considering other options.

PEOPLE LIE ABOUT THEIR IDENTITIES ALL THE TIME. IT DOESNT MEAN THEY ARE TERRORISTS.

"The formulas you invented defy logic. Did I say he was "Egyptian raised"?


My formulas are very good. Also, youve got it wrong...i didnt say you said he was Egyptian raised...i said your point would make more sense if he was. He wasnt, that hurts you, not helps you.

What does him being born in Egypt have to do with anything if he was raised in Mexico? We dont know all the facts. Again, critical thinking is very important.

"Your contention, that he is simply an immigrant to Mexico who has gained status as a Mexico National (which is a separate, lesser status than a Mexican Citizen, BTW), and he didn't want to get beaten for being Egyptian, is created out of whole cloth. Again, there is nothing in the article to indicate such."

Gosh. YOUR CONTENTION IS CREATED OUT OF CLOTH AS WELL!!! You dont get it. My contention is yet ANOTHER POSSIBILITY. That is the point, the possibilities are endless. Critical thinking!!!

jakejacobsen said...

Miss Ladybug,

We're starting a new illegal immigration blogburst, you can see the first one and find sign up info here...

http://freedomfolks.blogspot.com/2007/02/blogs-for-borders-video-blogburst.html

Thanks,
Jake

Miss Ladybug said...

Again, will_b, I can't be up all night working on my rebuttal - I have a sub assignment in the morning. I'll get back to you when I get home from school tomorrow. And that will be the last I argue with you. I've probably already wasted to much time refuting your nit-picky arguments.

Tyrian Purple said...

Miss Ladybug, your blog entry was amazing! I did not realize that we had 650 people from “special interest” countries coming across the border from Mexico. I guess I was hoping that the situation was more isolated than that, but 650 is way too many. It only took 19 to murder 3000, and that 650 only tells us who was caught. A sobering thought. I’m going to bookmark you and come back again. I love your letter, and I may adapt it to add my own experiences, with your permission.

I am always puzzled by this talk of “jobs Americans won’t do.” For example, supposedly we need illegal immigrants to pick vegetables, but I once spent several days during the summer doing exactly that for a farm during my teenage years. Working alongside me were a couple of old women, past retirement age, and as American as apple pie. So what do we need the illegals for again? What do they do that an American won't do?

Like you, I must take myself off to bed. But I’ll return tomorrow, probably after work. Sweet dreams.

Anonymous said...

Below is a link to a very good movie regarding illegal immigration and the border war. Please pass it on to friends as for sure you won’t see it in the mainstream media.

http://thelineinthesand.notlong.com

Dee said...

Miss Ladybug, love your passion! Shake them up and fight on. It's a shame that so many don't see the dangers of this situation.